Wednesday, 15 March 2017

Did God really say?

There have been reminders in my life lately, particularly when I have been reading the Word, about who and what I should keep my mind focused on.  Should it be what is spoken to me through my carnal mind or what is spoken to me through the mind of Christ?
 ?    ?   ?   ?   ?



 
 ?    ?    ?    ?    ?
 
One of these reminders was when I opened my Bible to the page where, in Matthew ch. 16 vs. 21 - 23. It reads :-

'From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.  Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him 'Far be it from You, Lord! he said.  'This shall never happen to You !'.  But Jesus turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind Me, Satan!  You are a stumbling block to Me.  For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.'....

Although Peter was a disciple of Jesus his thoughts were coming from the carnal mind and not wanting Jesus to go through the suffering He had to face as the sacrificial lamb.  Jesus had to be sacrificed in order for mankind to be reconciled back to God.
Sometimes, as born again believers,  we can see things the same way.  We can listen to what the carnal mind is telling us, without realizing that those thoughts can be coming from the spiritual enemy, because it appears to be better for the flesh at the time. 

Yet if we take every thought captive and bring it into obedience to Christ (that Word spoken to us through the enlightening of the Holy Spirit) then the outcome can only be good, as Jeremiah ch. 29 v. 11 says, regarding God's thoughts for us:-
'For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope


 A few days ago my husband called me from the outhouse in the back garden.  I went out and he showed me a plastic bag with daffodil bulbs inside, they had been in the outhouse throughout the Winter.  The bulbs, although they were inside a bag in semi darkness with no soil,  had grown and flowered in the bag
 

I was amazed at what I saw and immediately took them outside and planted them in the garden. I thought about how  the bulbs were able to flourish in a dark corner of the outhouse.

So too with us, Jesus has been made the sacrificial lamb.  He was crucified as a 'payment' for our sins so that we can be born again as a new creation born of God's Spirit. 


Once we believe in Him and begin to have that Word firmly implanted in our minds then we are able to flourish even though we may go through many  trials and be in dark places.

Romans ch. 5 vs. 3 - 5 states:-
'More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.'

As I watched the daffodils grow daily once planted outside, being watered through the rain, I saw how they grew stronger and matured.  I could see a similarity with how we grow stronger and mature, once planted in the body of Christ - the church) through the water of the Word daily highlighted to us by the Holy Spirit.


However, just as the serpent said to Eve 'Did God really say?', the deceiver can cause we who are the church, the 'bride of Christ', to question the Word of God spoken to us, as Paul the apostle mentioned in 2 Corinthians ch. 11 v. 3:-
'But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ'
 
One of the reasons we can come to question God's Word can be the fear of what might happen in the future if we act on that Word.  Yet when Peter was walking on the water because Jesus had called him to do so, the fear only came when he took his eyes off the Lord and saw the strength of the wind:-
'Lord, if it is You,' Peter replied, 'command me to come to You on the water.' 'Come', said Jesus.  Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water, and came toward Jesus.   But when he saw the strength of the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink, cried out, 'Lord, save me!'…
Matthew ch. 14 vs. 28 - 30
 
 We too can fear when we look at the circumstance we are in instead of keeping our eyes on the Word of God that has been spoken to us within that circumstance.   It is then, when the enemy puts into our carnal minds the words 'Did God really say?', that we must respond:-
'Yes, God did say!'
  
Psalm ch. 12 v. 6 says:- 'The promises of the Lord are promises that are pure, silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.'
 

108 comments:

Karen said...

This is a very thoughtful post. I see a parallel to today where some skip over the passages where Jesus talks about judgment and shaking. Yet all His plans are true and just.

Karen said...

Brenda, Don't post this comment. Just wanted to say that I can't see the words in blue on the black background. Maybe it's just me. Bless you for this great post.

Brenda said...

Hi Karen,
thank you for your comment. Yes, that is right - we have to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God. That is 'working out our salvation' eh? It can only lead to good for us.
God bless you Karen.

Brenda said...

Karen,
just to say - all comments come up on my posts, but do not worry. I was actually thinking that it may be a little difficult to see the scriptures that I always put in blue. I will change it to a much lighter blue.
God bless you, and thank you for mentioning.

child of God said...

Good post Brenda, thank you!
I believe we are living in a time where there is a great confusion over the church and God's children. There is a spirit of deception that is causing us to question exactly what God has said. Then there is the fear Satan places in us when we do act on God's word and it can come by attack even from brothers and sisters in Christ. We need to pray against this deception and obey God's word knowing that trials and tribulations come to all of God's children. If we aren't under attack then we have to question if we are really following God.
Blessings,
<><

Ceil said...

Hi Brenda! I LOVE this story about the daffodil bulbs. What a wonder to see them flourish, even in the dark? Such a great lesson for all of us, although we are in the dark, Jesus can bring us growth anyway.
I also liked your idea of bringing all ideas captive and comparing them to the life and love of God. What is filled with error just won't be able to stand in that light!
Blessings,
Ceil

Laurie Collett said...

Dear Brenda,
What a lovely post and encouraging reminder to trust in God's Word alone, and not man's or Satan's misinterpretation of it. May we always hear His still, small voice reaffirming the truth of what is written in His Word.
God bless you,
Laurie

Brenda said...

Hi coG,
I do agree that, just as the enemy caused Eve - and then Adam - to question God's Word, then so he can do with us. Jesus warned about being deceived in the end times. There is a scripture that says:- 'For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.' (Matthew 24:24-25,) We must always be on our guard.
God bless.

Brenda said...

Hi Ceil,
I know this sounds silly, but I have always loved plants and creatures as if they were little babies , and it was as if I could not wait to get them in the ground and in the light. It reminds me of how God loves us (although there is no comparison to His love and mine), and how He wants us to be brought out of the dark iton His light. Trials can really strengthen us and encourage us to trust that Word more.
God bless you Ceil.

Brenda said...

Hi Laurie,
thank you for your encouragement. Yes, may we always trust in God's Word to us and hear His still, small voice. The deceiver is rife because he knows his time is short.
God bless you too Laurie.

No Doubt said...

Hi Brenda, Good Post! I agree. We can grow, in this darkness, as long as we exist in the right conditions, in his Word. A daily washing, in his Word, keeps us from being mislead by the tempter's #1 tried and proven method to lead us astray, "Did God Really Say That?" Yes, he did. What me to show it to you? When the Messiah did that, Satan ran the other way.

By the way, thanks again for your prayers, concerning my gallbladder surgery. Sorry for being absent. As soon as I recovered from the surgery, I was down with a bad case of the flu. YUCH!!! :-) LOL

Debbie Harris said...

Excellent post, Brenda, filled with tremendous truth found in God's Word.
That is amazing about your daffodils growing in the darkness and in a bag no less. You will enjoy watching them grow and a great analogy by the way.
I wanted to thank you for all your beautiful comments you have left on my posts, you have blessed my heart, dear lady. Your visits are always a joy.

Bless you♡

Brenda said...

Hi Keith,
lovely to see you back. I love how you have worded your comment concerning the enemy. The battle is always the Word of God against what the deceiver says and does - and there is only One winner if we believe. I love the way that, when the enemy was allowed to attack Job, Job overcame him by seeking, learning from, and understanding what God said:-
'As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last He will take His stand on the earth. 'Even after my skin is destroyed, yet from my flesh I shall see God;…' Job ch. 19 vs. 25, 26.
God bless you Keith

Brenda said...

Hi Debbie,
thank you for your kind comment - all glory to our beautiful Father God and His Son.
I have to say that I have been so busy lately that I have not been able to visit other bloggers as much as I would like to. I love interacting with people, and will spend a good time reading them over the weekend.
God bless you Debbie.

Kelleyn Rothaermel said...

I believe God can speak to each of us through the Holy Ghost, but God will never instruct us to do something against his laws. I pray daily to know his will! It often comes as a small still voice. Not often but sometimes it has been a louder voice that will tell me no to do something, but you are right when you are reading your scriptures you are more intuned to the spirit. Have a lovely weekend!

Paul G said...

Hi Brenda,
"Did God really say ?"
I think that is a sobering question for everyone of us.

Did God really say that He is three persons in one God, a trinity ?
Even though God did NOT say that, and yet millions of Christians believe that.

Did God really say that His Name is Jehovah or Yahweh ?
Nowhere in God's Word is it written that His Name is Jehovah or Yahweh, but most Christians and every Christian cult believes that which God did NOT say.

I think that only the children of darkness are growing in darkness, but the children of the true God are the children of light and they cannot grow in darkness but only in the light.
Jesus Christ is the light of this world and everyone who is in Him walks in the light as He is in the light, and they believe in Him alone.

No Doubt said...

Paul, Yahweh placed His name in the scriptures nearly 7,000 times. And 7,000 times bible translators substituted it with a generic title such as "LORD" or "GOD." In fact, "Yahweh" is the 7th most commonly used word in the scriptures.

There is no real justification for this tradition, for the scriptures tell us that we are not to add to or take away from His word.

Pro 30:4-6 - Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, If you know?
5 Every word of Elohim is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

That, my friend, is pretty straightforward and scriptural. Yahweh, Yah Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh is God's name and Y'shua, which means Yah Saves, is his son's name. Again, inescapable and scriptural.

Paul G said...

Well brother Keith, "Did God really say that ?"
Absolutely NOT !
Yahweh is not even mentioned once, and neither is Jehovah or Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, NO Keith, it's just NOT there, you have made up those names because you don't want to believe that there is NO OTHER Name given under heaven and on earth than 'JESUS' who is the Christ.

God's Word is the Bible and any other book is NOT God's Word, and if a text from the Bible is found in another book, then only that text would be the Word of God.
But why read the other book ? Why not just read the Bible ? Isn't the Bible good enough for you ?

Proverbs 30:4, The Lord Jesus Christ is testing you, "Who has established all the ends of the earth ? What is His name or His sons name ? Surely you would know !"
It seems to me that you still don't know.

You don't even believe that JESUS created ALL things and nothing came into being apart from Him (JESUS), (John 1:3 – 10 and Col. 1:15 – 20).
You don't even believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is GOD with us (Mat. 1:23).
Tell me, how then could you believe that God's Name is JESUS ?

Did God really say that ?

Brenda said...

Hi Kelleyn,
nice to meet you.
I have always seen the Bible as a vocabulary, not a book. God has an amazing plan of calling us to His Son Jesus, through Whom we have access back to God when we believe. He wants all to be saved, and knows exactly how to do that. The main thing is that we endeavour to act on what He speaks to us. He is a compassionate God and understands that we are flesh.
God bless you Kelleyn.

Brenda said...

Hi Paul,
No, there is no wording in the Bible that says God is three 'persons', and there is no word 'trinity' in the Bible.
However, God is Spirit and we are told that those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth - God is not flesh, but He can enter into the flesh as He does when we are born of the Spirit, as He did with Jesus - Who was born of the Spirit. Then we become children of God.

John ch. 14 v.10 states that Jesus said the Father was living in Him:-
'Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I’m telling you doesn’t come from me. The Father, who lives in me, does what he wants.'
Romans ch. 8 v. 29 states that Jesus was the first born among many brethren.

What it does say in the Bible regarding what you are asking, and the word 'three' is all contained within 1 John ch. 5 vs. 1-12:-

'Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that He has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning His Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.'

Regarding the names of God, there are many names referring to God written in the old testament, such as El-Shaddai, Adonai, and they refer to what He does and Who He is - as do all Hebrew names.

Regarding 'children of darkness', we are all children of darkness, being descendants of the first Adam, until we believe in Jesus, the last Adam, (Whom God has made our Lord)Acts ch. 2 v. 36.
Then as we each work out our own salvation we grow and mature in Christ, being led into all truth by the teaching of the Holy Spirit - Whom Jesus said the Father would send.
'If you love me, you will obey my commandments. I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper who will be with you forever. 1 That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn’t see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you' John ch. 14 vs. 15-17.

Paul G said...

Brenda, the Scriptures that you are quoting are true, but what you are saying is not true.
You see, you are transgressing the first commandment of the Lord. What is it?
Genesis 2:17 "You shall NOT !"
Note, that command came to Adam and not to Eve, and remember it was Eve who was deceived and fell into transgression (1 Tim. 2:14). Adam was not and could no be deceived because he was created in the image of God, and the likeness of God can NOT be deceived.

So let's look at the first and second commandment of the Lord (Exodus 20:2 – 5), note, God said, "I am the LORD !" tell me, which LORD is speaking if there is only ONE LORD who is God ?

Well Brenda, if you know the Scriptures and the Lord, then your knees ought to bow and your tongue ought to confess that JESUS Christ is LORD, meaning, that Jesus Christ is the LORD God the Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and everything in it.
And NO ! It's not Yahweh or Jehovah or Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, it simply is Jesus of Nazareth who is the Christ.

Verse 3, "You shall have NO OTHER gods before ME."
Verse 5, "You shall NOT WORSHIP them; or serve them."
Now, did God really say that you shall worship NO OTHER ?

Please read the Word of God (Matthew 28:9), 'And they took hold of His feet and worshiped the LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
'Did God really say, that you shall worship NO OTHER ?'
Please think.

Paul G said...

Did God really say that you shall worship a god called Yahweh or Jehovah or whatever ?
All of us worship the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth in Spirit and in truth just as it is written.

No Doubt said...

Paul, you denying that Jesus came as a man, in the flesh, shows the root of your doctrine. 1 John 4:1-2 and 2 John 1:7 reveals the true nature of your doctrine. Please allow God's Spirit to lead you into all truth. Time is running out. Soon, we will be gathered unto Yahweh.

Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a propheta acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. 3But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God.

I say this because many deceivers have gone out into the world. They deny that Jesus Christ came in a real body. Such a person is a deceiver and an antichrist

Brenda said...

Paul,
when Paul the apostle is referring to Eve being deceived he is likening her(the 'wife' of the first Adam) to the church (the bride of the last Adam)
It is a warning that we too can be deceived and question God's Word spoken to us.

Although Adam did not get tempted by the serpent to go against what God said, he still went against what God said.
Genesis ch. 3 vs. 17-19 state:-
'To Adam he said, 'Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’
'Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since fro' it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.'

Jesus did not go against what God told Him to do by being tempted by Satan, as shown when He did not try to save Himself from being killed when Satan caused Peter to suggest it to Him.

Regarding God and Jesus, I have already stated in my last comment to you that the scriptures say that it is God Who made Jesus our Lord. The following are just a few scriptures that refer to God and Jesus, and how Jesus is the mediator between man and God. I have highlighted several words in capitals just to emphasize the fact that Jesus was sent as a 'mediator'.

1 Corinthians ch. 8 v.6 states:-
'yet for us there is but one God, the Father, FROM whom all things came and FOR whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom all things came and THROUGH whom we live.'

John ch. 14 vs. 16-17 state:-

'And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.'

2 Corinthians 1 vs. 21-22 state:-

'Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come'

In John ch. 14 v. 10 Jesus says to Thomas:-
'Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, LIVING IN ME, who is doing HIS work.'


Paul G said...

Well Brenda, I don't know where to start, you are not a little bit deceived, you are quite deceived.
I'm glad that you are saying those things so everyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ can see it for themselves.

Brenda, a long time ago I have said to you that, because you don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, therefore every doctrine that you believe is distorted and mostly not true.

I think that you need to start again from the beginning, and the most important doctrine is the doctrine of God.
If you don't get that doctrine right, then you WILL fail on ALL other doctrines and your religion will profit you nothing, or not much.

You said,
"Jesus did not go against what God told Him to do by being tempted by Satan, as shown when He did not try to save Himself from being killed when Satan caused Peter to suggest it to Him.

Regarding God and Jesus, I have already stated in my last comment to you that the scriptures say that it is God Who made Jesus our Lord. The following are just a few scriptures that refer to God and Jesus, and how Jesus is the mediator between man and God. I have highlighted several words in capitals just to emphasize the fact that Jesus was sent as a 'mediator'."

Can you see Brenda ?
You DO NOT believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you WILL NOT believe in Him.
It seems to me that Satan has put a veil over your eyes.

You think that there is a god called Yahweh (which is not found in the Bible), and he is telling the Lord Jesus Christ what to do is the greatest deception.

I can see that Satan is blinding you, and every time the Lord Jesus is calling you to Himself, Satan places a metaphor before you and he says, don't believe in Jesus but believe in what it is written (the metaphor).

Soon or later you need stop and evaluate your stand.
You cannot believe in the Lord Jesus Christ AND in another, just as much as you cannot serve two masters.
Look Brenda, the call of the Lord Jesus is simple; BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus Christ and in NO OTHER and you shall be saved, believe NOT and you shall be damned.

It's not complicated, you don't need to have a comprehensive understanding of the Scriptures, but you need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth and forsake ALL OTHER (all other gods).

I think it's time for you to make that decision in a public confession ?
The time is now, to day is the day, do not harden your heart.

Remember, it is the Lord Jesus Christ who ought to be your heavenly bridegroom and He requires a public confession.

He ought to be your LORD and your GOD and your saviour and the lover of your soul and your bridegroom and the first and the last and beside Him you should have NO OTHER !

Brenda said...

Paul,
it appears it is the written Word you do not believe in, as you do not believe what the scriptures say, as in God making Jesus both Lord and Christ.
It comes to mind about being aware of the 'leaven' of the Pharisees Paul. Leaven is something added to bread. We need only the unleavened 'bread' from Heaven, the Word of God, to teach us and we can only encourage one another through sharing our testimonies regarding this.
We can not teach one another, as we all have to work out our own salvation as we are taught by the Holy Spirit leading us into all truth
As for scriptures regarding Jesus and God being 'metaphors', in the following verses Where Jesus is speaking about Himself and God His disciples say that He is speaking PLAINLY.

John ch. 16 vs.26-32 state:-

'At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.'
His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.'

Paul G said...

Brenda, it is as I have said before that you do NOT believe the written Word of God, what you believe is the metaphor of that which is written, and that is without understanding.

Yes Brenda, we are sharing testimonies, but at this time there are weightier things to talk about than testimonies.
It is the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ which He has commissioned me to present to you and to everyone who reads those comments.
Therefore listen and take heed lest you have run in vain.

You said, "John ch. 16 vs.26-32 state:-
'At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.'"

Brenda, that day has NOT yet happened to you, otherwise you would ask Jesus.
But you still ask an unknowable god called Yahweh in Jesus Name, and then you also pray to this unknowable god called Yahweh THROUGH Jesus, and at the end of the prayer you bung on the phrase 'in Jesus Name'.
Brenda, ALL the pagans and unbelievers do that. Do NOT be like them ! but rather separate yourself from them and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Can you see, in the first section Jesus is speaking plainly to those who believe in Him, and to all those who don't believe in Him He speaks figurative (metaphoric), and to them He is still speaking figurative till this very day. They do not understand and neither can they, that is because it has NOT been given to them.

Many times I have interpreted the metaphor in that passage, but it seems to me that you can't hear.
For that reason you first need to decide whether you are going to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ALONE or in another.
You can't believe in TWO masters Brenda.

Remember, (1 Kings 18:21) 'If the LORD Jesus Christ is God, follow Him, if Baal is God, follow him'.
It depends on a public decision on your behalf, knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures comes after. It is the Lord Jesus Christ who will lead you into all the truth, but if you refuse to believe in Him, you will be left in darkness.

Brenda said...

Paul,
it is only as the scriptures say. Jesus said His Words are Spirit and life, and the reason He said that was that the Spirit of God was speaking through His voice.
All who are born of that Spirit are children of God, and Jesus was the first born of many brethren, the One Whom God made Lord.

Sandi said...

I love how the daffodils bloom. Who would have thought?

Can we believe Him? Yeah. Just look around.

Brenda said...

Hi Sandi,
I have to say that I was amazed at what happened with those daffodils, but on looking back on my life nothing surprises me what the Lord can encourage me with at specific times, and I believe this was partially to encourage me to trust in Him and to what He is able to do - the unbelievable to the carnal mind.

No Doubt said...

Paul, As Brenda stated, the scriptures plainly state that there is a difference between the Father and the Son. In my blog, You said. "apart from the Father is NO other God, and that God who is the Father appeared in a body" 1 Tim. 3:16)"

The scriptures agree that there is no god, other than God, our Father. However, it is you that believe in more than the Father. You constantly make Y'shua, Jesus into the Father, when in reality, it is the Spirit of the Father, that dwells within Y'shua.

As for 1 Tim 3:16, it doesn't say that God manifested, in the flesh. Read it again.

"And this Mystery of Righteousness is truly great, which was revealed in the flesh, justified by the Spirit; made known to messengers and preached among the Gentiles; trusted by the world; received as Godliness."

It doesn't say anything about God appearing in the flesh.

However, I should note that it does say that the Word of God was fulfilled in a man, in John 1:14. The Word of God dwelled within Y'shua, by the Spirit of the Father. This one man was, as John 1:14 clearly and plainly states, monogenēs, which means the only one of his kind. That's what the scriptures say. For this reason and his obedience, unto the sacrificial altar of God, Y'shua received the Glory due him. God doesn't need to receive Glory. All Glory already is his.

Getting back to 1 Tim 3:16, it is clearly talking about the Mystery of Righteousness. The Mystery, being salvation through a righteous man, the only man of his kind, was justified(made righteous), by the indwelling of God's Spirit. This Mystery (salvation through this righteous man) was given to the remnant (his messengers) to preach among the gentiles. When those, who would trust in this Mystery (salvation), received the gift of godliness, in the form of the Spirit of God.

Did you know that there are only a handful of English Translations of the scriptures, including your erroneous King James, that continues to read the way you are reading it? That's because the translators recognize the earlier scriptures, while the King James continue to hold on to the idolatrous interpretation. There's where your erroneous doctrine comes from.

If you read the Bible as a whole, you find that there is only one God, Yah, and only one Son, the only one of his kind, Y'shua, which means Yah Saves, one of the fulfillments of Isaiah 9:6.

Brenda said...

Hi Keith,
I love the way the scriptures join together as in God making Jesus our Lord (to be a mediator), and where David says 'The LORD said to my Lord'.(Psalm 110). It clearly talks about two.

No Doubt said...

Hey Brenda. Sometimes, it actually startles me, when you see the deception, so wide spread, and the deceiver so active. If the second coming isn't just around the corner, we are in for a rough ride.

Brenda said...

The deceiver is very active Keith, he knows his time is short. Revelation 12 v.12 states:-
'Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.'

That is why we must not fall away, as stated in 1 Timothy vh. 4 v.1:-
'The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.'

As Jesus said, we too say 'It is written'.

Paul G said...

Yes Brenda, what you have said is true, even the metaphor at the end.
But don't think that another entity made Jesus LORD; that is only metaphoric language for those who don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the LORD, means that He is GOD from before He created the heavens and the earth and He was LORD God at His birth. Lord means God, 'Lord' is just another word for God.

Brenda, where was God when Jesus was in the manger ?
If you know the Scriptures, then you need to agree that God was in Jesus Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
You see Brenda, you need to abandon your other god whom you call the Father Yahweh.

Please grant me an analogy;
The spiritual is parallel to the natural.

In the natural, if you are married to your husband and you have also a relationship with your husband's father, then you are considered to be unfaithful and a harlot in the eyes of your husband, regardless of what you believe.

Now the same is in the spiritual.
If you are married to the Lord Jesus Christ and you have also a relationship with another whom you call Father, then you are considered unfaithful to your heavenly bridegroom and He will call you a harlot just as He has said in Revelation 17 and 18.

The harlot church is the church who believes in, and has relationships with many god-persons (the trinity) etc. and is unfaithful to the Lord Jesus Christ who is the only God forever praised (Rom. 9:5).
'For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to ONE husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ Jesus our only Lord and God (2 Cor. 11:2).'


Therefore the Lord Jesus Christ is calling you OUT of that harlot belief system, saying, "come you OUT of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; ......" (Rev. 18:4).
So then, are you willing to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and in NO OTHER?

Paul G said...

Oops, nearly forget, 1 Tim. 4:1, Falling away from whom ? From Yahweh ?
Certainly not !

1 Tim. 4:1 is falling away from the Lord Jesus Christ to other gods like Jehovah, Yahweh, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh etc.

Paul G said...

No Keith, you have a total confusion in your explanation.

My position is very clear.
Yes the Lord Jesus Christ IS the Father just as He has said in John 14:9 and in John 10:30 and in Isaiah 9:6 etc.
If the Lord Jesus Christ would not be the Father, then He would be a liar and I would have been deceived.
If the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Father, then ALL those who worship the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Matthew 28:9) would also be deceived and transgress the Commandant of God.

But as it is, you worship a god you do NOT know, just as the Lord Jesus has said in Mark 7:7 - 8 "In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Neglecting the Commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men."

Can you see, you worship a god you do not know, a god called Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, while neglecting to worship the true God Jesus Christ (Mat, 28:9).
Keith, you might not worship the true God (1 John 5:20), but all the wise men worshiped Jesus (Mat. 2:11), and the Apostles (Mat 4:33) etc. but you rather hold to the tradition of men and ignore the Scriptures.

Brenda said...

God is Spirit Paul,
and can be omnipresent. If Jesus is the first of many brethren, a Son of God, then all of us can be children of God (being born of God's Spirit) and have the same Father.

Regarding the word Lord, Paul, I think you have disregarded what the scriptures say - as referred to in my previous comment to Keith.
'I love the way the scriptures join together as in God making Jesus our Lord (to be a mediator), and where David says 'The LORD said to my Lord'.(Psalm 110). It clearly talks about two'

Laurie Collett said...

Dear Brenda,
Reading through the comments it appears there is much spiritual warfare going on. Increased activity by Satan and his false prophets is surely a sign of the End Times. May we put on the whole armor of God and be prepared to stand fast for His truth. Come quickly, Lord Jesus!
Love and prayers,
Laurie

Brenda said...

Hi Laurie,
Amen and Amen to putting on the whole armour of God and be prepared to stand fast for His truth. Come quickly Lord Jesus - indeed.
We are definitely in the end times and Satan is trying to deceive, but we hold fast to the truth eh?
Love and prayers to you too Laurie.

Ken said...

Hi Brenda. Great analogy with the daffodils. Blessings

Brenda said...

Hi Ken,
lovely to hear from you. I am always amazed how God speaks to us, and I believe absolutely that nothing is impossible with Him.

No Doubt said...

Paul, you say that your position is quite clear and you state verses to boister your claim. However, when you go to the verses, they don't say what you are saying. In John 14:9, it does say that Jesus is the father. It says that when you look at Jesus, you see the father. Hebrews 1:3 clarifies that this means Jesus is the reflection of the Father. It clearly doesn't say he is the Father. In John 10:30, it say sthey are one. It does say they are in the same. To say that, you have to ignore not only the previous verse, but many other that show that Y'shua and the Father are separate entities, but same in Spirit.

As for worshipping, each time the New Testament uses the word "worship", it was the Greek word, "proskyneō", which means to pay homage to men and beings of superior rank, not necessarily worshipping God. Look at Matthew 18:26. Is Jesus advocating that it is ok to worship kings and lords as God. In your scenario, the answer is yes. But, it isn't so. Look at the scriptures, as a whole and you begin the see your belief and doctrine fall apart.

Brenda said...

There are always scriptures to back up scripture regarding this issue, bringing all truth together like a jigsaw puzzle.
One of them is where Jesus gives an answer to a ruler's question in Luke ch. 18 vs. 18, 19:-'
'Then a certain ruler asked Him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' 'Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.'

Jesus is so obviously stating that He is not God, Who alone is 'good'.

It is the Spirit, which is God, that is good. This is the Spirit that we have to be born of, as was Jesus - through Whom we have been granted access to that God.

'For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,' ! Timothy ch. 2 v. 5.

Paul G said...

Keith, there has to be something wrong with every human being who says that TWO are ONE. Or even think that TWO could be ONE.

It amazes me that someone like you would say such nonsense and even entertain such folly.

No Doubt said...

Paul, once again, you deliberately misrepresent what I have written, in the same way, you misrepresent the scriptures.

Brenda said...

Paul has done the same with what I have written Keith. It does not really surprise me though because he does the same with the scriptures and what Jesus (Y'shua) says.

No Doubt said...

You've got to admit, he is consistent. :-) LOL With the said, he is a great example of the title of your post. Not only "Did God really say?", you can expand it to, "Did Brenda really say?" or "Did Paul really say? "Did Keith really say?".

It is one thing to individually interpret the scriptures, it a totally different thing to interpret inconsistently. Unfortunately, Paul incorrectly interprets one thing in the B'rit Hadashah, NT, then tries to draw a correlation with something in the Tanakh, OT, but changes things around, quite often.

Paul G said...

Keith, well thank you my friend for what you have said to Brenda :-)

Since you claim to interpret the Scriptures accurately, then tell me; when the Lord Jesus said, that He and the Father are ONE, did Jesus really meant TWO ?

Brenda said...

I have to admit it did make me smile regarding the 'Did ..... really say.'
Concerning two being one Paul, it is not the only scripture that makes this reference. Genesis ch. 2 v.24 states:-
'This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife, and they become one flesh.'

Mark ch. 10 v. 8 states:-
'and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.'

The 'two being one' speaks of bonding and unity Paul, and that is what Jesus is with God - He is in unity. When we are born of the Holy Spirit, we too are one with Jesus and God.

In John ch. 17 vs. 20-22 Jesus says:-
'I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—…'

Paul G said...

No Brenda, TWO cannot be ONE.
Why is that so difficult for you to understand and accept ?
Two are always TWO.
You and you husband are ALWAYS TWO, never ONE.
Two flesh are TWO flesh, they might become one flesh but only for a moment, not unless they are Siamese twins.

If you are one in union with ten person, then you are TEN persons who are in union.
But the Lord Jesus said, "I and the Father are ONE", meaning that Jesus IS the Father.
Jesus is the Lord God, and 'Father' is His title, just like 'Son' is also His title (because of His incarnation).
That's why Jesus is called the Lord God the Father of all creation.

Trinitarians in their deception think that each title is a separate person, and for that reason they are called polytheists.

Paul G said...

Brenda, most Christians don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. They only SAY with their lips that they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but their hearts burns for the god of this world.
Therefore the LORD Jesus Christ will bring in your midst a people who do not love their own lives, a people more fierce than those apostate Christians and they will bring the sword against them, and only then they will know that Jesus Christ is the only God there is (Rev. 2:23).

But for you Brenda and Keith, repent as long as to day is still called to day and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ONLY and in NO OTHER.
Don't worry what other Christians might think or say. Remember, you don't want to hear the Lord Jesus saying to you, 'depart from Me I NEVER KNEW YOU !'.

Brenda said...

Paul,
how can you claim to believe in Jesus when you do not believe what He says, even when He is speaking plainly (not metaphorically as you keep saying He is), as stated in John ch. 16 vs.27-29:-

'For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came from God. I came from the Father and entered the world. In turn, I will leave the world and go to the Father.' His disciples said, 'See, now You are speaking plainly and without figures of speech.…

I will say the same to you Paul, as Jesus said to the deceiver - 'It is written'.
Allow Jesus to be your Lord by believing what He has said.

S. Knowles said...

Hi Brenda,
Thanks for sharing this very encouraging reminder of God's faithfulness and love and promises. God bless and keep you.

Paul G said...

Brenda, I will give you the same answer as I have given you, over at my blog.
The Lord Jesus Christ does not speak plainly to you, He is still speaking figuratively, and the reason is because you don't believe in Him but in another god called Yahweh, therefore He has hidden those things from you.

But to me the Lord Jesus Christ is speaking plainly just as He did to all His Apostles and disciples, simply, He has given me eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart to understand.

You said, "Allow Jesus to be your Lord by believing what He has said."
Brenda, if you would know God, you would NOT make such a statement.

Nobody ALLOWS the LORD God the Almighty Jesus Christ to be something or do anything.

Is Jesus Christ your son Brenda ? You might allow your son to do and be something, but surely NOT the Lord God the creator of heaven and earth.
I think that you should humble yourself before the LORD and ask Him whether He would ALLOW you to believe in Him.

No Doubt said...

Paul, is God or Y'shua an author of confusion? You going back and forth from literal to metaphor, without continuity of the scriptures is not of God, no matter how you look at it.

Paul G said...

Keith, there is NO Y'shua in the Bible. You are making up those names and they have nothing to do with the Lord God.

The God of the Bible and of all creation is the Lord Jesus Christ, and apart from the Lord Jesus Christ is NO OTHER God.
I can't say it more simple than that.

My question to you was, "Since you claim to interpret the Scriptures accurately, then tell me; when the Lord Jesus said, that He and the Father are ONE, did Jesus really meant TWO ?"

If the Lord Jesus Christ is NOT the Father, then Jesus and the Father are TWO persons. But the Lord Jesus said, "I and the Father are ONE",
He didn't say that He is in union in Spirit with another person or god, otherwise THEY still would be TWO persons.

The only way possible for the Father and the Son to be ONE is when the Lord Jesus Christ IS the Father and the Son, two titles for one person Jesus Christ the Lord God.

It's not rocket science my friend.

Brenda said...

Paul,
you are continually giving 'your answer' and that is why we all have to turn to the scriptures to see what is being said to us as individuals. It appears that your doctrine has taken the place of the doctrine of God. We are all responsible for working out our own salvation. It is only the Holy spirit alone that leads into all truth.

These words are not a metaphor Paul, they are scripture and true:-

For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).

Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a human, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:5-8).

Here we are shown Paul, that although we have been born of the Holy Spirit, and having become part of the body of Christ, have the mind of Christ, we too must be humble and have the same attitude.

Brenda said...

Hi Sateigdra,
just saw your comment before Paul's comments. Lovely to hear from you. God's promises are beautiful, and His plan of salvation for us through Jesus is truly amazing as He changes us daily through that 'living' and 'loving' Word.
I hope you are well, and if you are in touch with Tim say 'Hello' to him from me.
God bless you with all He has for us in Christ Jesus.

Laurie Collett said...

Hi Brenda,
Amen to holding fast to the Truth! Jesus is the Truth; His Word is true; and it is our only source of authority, not man's traditions or philosophies. May God continue to bless you as you uplift Him through your blog.
Love in Him,
Laurie

Paul G said...

Yes Brenda, those words are metaphoric language.

When the Lord God speaks about Himself, He ALWAYS and without exception uses metaphoric language, because there is no other way to speak.
Otherwise there would be one god speaking to another god, or one god would highly exalt another god, or one god would learn from another god etc. etc.

All trinitarians have fallen headlong into that error, and that's why they end up with three gods, a trinity of persons.
Do they use the Bible to justify their error ? Most certainly they do, but it doesn't profit them much.

What you are saying is, that a unknowable god which you call Yahweh (not in the Bible) highly exalted a mere man whom you think is not good.
No Brenda, you don't think of Jesus to be good, you think that only this 'god' called Yahweh is good and Jesus is a bad man. (If only Yahweh is good, then Jesus and all others are bad.)

So, this god Yahweh gave a bad man called Jesus the name which is above all names, so that everybody ought to bow to a bad man's name for the glory of this god called Yahweh or Father.
Remember, there are many man who are called Jesus, and everyone is a mere man, except JESUS who is the Christ, (meaning God cam in the flesh).

And the Lord Jesus said, "You thought that I was just like you; but I will reprove you and state the case in order before your eyes." (Ps. 50:21)

Brenda, that happens when you can't discern between a metaphor and reality.

Brenda said...

Hallelujah Laurie,
Praise God for making Jesus our Lord so that all of mankind, through Him, are able to be reconciled back to God and have the eternal life that we had all been denied because of Adam's sin. (as in Adam all die). All we have to do is believe in Him.
God bless you Laurie.

Brenda said...

Paul,
read once again:-
'For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).'

No Doubt said...

Paul, I know that literal scriptural verses do not mean much to you, but I'd be remised, if I didn't try it one more time.

Scriptural Fact#1

God is Echad. Deut 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

In the original scriptures, it reads Schma Isreal, Yahweh, Elohim, Yahweh Echad.

Elohim is literally translated as Gods, plural. However, it doesn't mean that there are more than one. That would make the verse contradictory. It talks about his multidimensionality, IE: Body, Mind, Spirit, Soul, Eternal, etc., an existence that you and I cannot totally comprehend, because we are restricted to our four dimensional reality.

Scriptural Fact#2

The Messiah, Y'shua is one with the Father. John 10:30

Scriptural Fact#3

We are one in the Messiah as he is one with the Father. John 17:21

Scriptural Fact#4 and 5

How are we one with the Messiah, in the same way, as Y'shua is one with the Father? In The Spirit. 1 Cor 6:17 This is done by making God's will and interest out greatest desire.

"But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit."

Scriptural Fact#6

Becoming one with the Messiah, who is one with Yahweh, makes all of us children of Yahweh. In fact, it makes us Elohim, gods, sons of the most high. Psalm 82:60

Scriptural Conclusion

Becoming one with the Messiah, who is one with God, does not make us the Messiah or God. In the same way, it doesn't make the Messiah, the Father. We are one in Spirit, Mind or Desire.

Y'shua drives that point home when he says, in John 10:34-38,

“Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside, what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is IN me, and I IN the Father.”

The Father's Spirit was completely in the Messiah, in the same way, his Spirit can in us, if we allow him complete access, to allow his transforming to be complete.

and that, Paul, is what you'll find, When You Search For The Truth.

S. Knowles said...

Hi No Doubt,
That was a great explanation that you gave to Paul. I haven't read the entire dialogue between you all and Paul but I see it's really been going on for a while. God bless you and Brenda for sharing the truth of God's word with Paul. :-)

S. Knowles said...

Hey Brenda,
The last time I emailed Tim I know he said he wasn't feeling well. Can you keep him in prayer please? I do hope he starts to feel a lot better soon.

Brenda said...

Hi Keith,
Amen, amen and amen to all the beautiful scriptures in your comment.

Brenda said...

Hi Sateigdra,
I will continue to pray for Tim too, as you are. He is very mice, and a good writer. He shared one of the stories that he wrote on my emails, I wish I had kept it on. I shall have to look to see if his email details are still on my site as I have a tendency to delete things too quickly.
God bless you Sateigdra.

S. Knowles said...

Hi again Brenda,
I just went up and read more of the dialogue, I saw you said this, "'Then a certain ruler asked Him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' 'Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.'
Jesus is so obviously stating that He is not God, Who alone is 'good'."

I was wondering does that mean that Jesus is not God? I'm asking this because after reading the scriptures this is becoming a general conclusion among some believers. I even begun to realize this. I tend to have a bit of trouble explaining this topic of the godhead body as mentioned in Colossians 2 saying we are complete in Christ. I saw Paul say that 1 Timothy 3:16 doesn't actually say "God was manifested in the flesh". Now in my Bible it does say that but at the bottom it makes a note that in the NU-Text it says "Who" instead of the word God.

I'm not asking this to debate or anything. I'm just trying to get clarification on this because I do believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I do believe that God the Father was in Christ reconciling us back to Him as written in 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. If Jesus was not God and if God was not manifested in the flesh ( coming in Christ Jesus) then how do we explain what is written in John 1:1, John 1:14?

Again I want to say I'm not here to debate like Paul but really to just understand what you said about what Jesus reply was to the ruler who called Him good.

Brenda said...

Hi Sateigdra,
just saw your comment on my mobile phone. I think the easiest way to explain that conversation where Jesus says 'Why do you call me good,only God is good' is if you think of God as Spirit. It was the Spirit of God that was in Jesus fleshly body. When someone looks at a human body they do not see the Spirit inside that body, they see and talk to that body. That is how we can all be one with Jesus and with God, in the Spirit.
Jesus was the 'express image' of God, and Jesus says that His words are 'Spirit and life', and the express image is not the flesh. He was the only begotten Son of God, the first of many brethren, and all who are born of the Spirit that Jesus said the Father would send after He had paid the price of being sacrificed are 'children of God'.

The difference is that we do not have to pay the price of sacrifice, only Jesus had to do that. Praise His lovely name.


It is something that can only be taught us by God, and when we seek the truth I find that the truth is revealed. That is the purpose of the Holy Spirit. It is not something that I find I learn all at once, it is a growing in the Lord - line upon line, precept upon precept, and I love it.

I could go on forever talking about this but it is the Holy Spirit that will lead us into all truth.
God bless you Sateigdra, and I don't mind what questions you ask me I will do my best to answer. God uses all of us to build one another up, and He is using Keith to reveal the true interpretation of the scriptures.

No Doubt said...

Thanks, Sateigdra, for you kind words. We try our best to present a scripturally based vision of the Bible. God willing, I will continue with my upmost ability. Thanks, again.

If you and Brenda will allow me to momentarily interrupt your conversation. I totally agree with Brenda, in her explanation of Y'shua/Jesus' relationship with the Father. Sometimes, I find a picture helps. Unfortunately, Blogger.com doesn't allow you to import pictures into these comments. However, if you take a quick detour to the following post and come right back, I think that it may help with understanding Brenda's explanation, which is scripturally based.

A Biblically Supported Representation Of The God-Y'shua Relationship

Unfortunately, many of us have been indoctrinated with unscriptural teachings, it's hard to wrap our minds around the truth, when it is presented. With all that said, keep in mind, Act 17:11. Receive all teachings or messages, with all eagerness of heart, but search the scriptures daily to determine their validity and/or truthfulness. I think that's why Brenda and I and the rest of the Remnant of God get along so well. We stick to God's Word and his testimony within nature. God will not lie nor set up a confusing situation.

No Doubt said...

Thanks, Brenda. Praise God for his wonderful and revealing Word. I know that you were probably nodding your head and saying yes, to all the scriptures, because you have presented them before. I pray that maybe, one day, Paul will look at the scriptures, as intended, not twisted, in order to support mans doctrine.

S. Knowles said...

No Doubt thanks for sharing what you did. I checked out the link to your blog post that you added. The example of what Thomas said shows calling Jesus our Lord and our God is correct because He is both. I got that I just was wondering if saying Jesus is God was wrong but clearly not in that scripture with Thomas.

S. Knowles said...

Thank you Brenda for responding to my question. Your response was very helpful. Both you and No Doubts responses have given me things to think on. God bless and keep you both.

No Doubt said...

Hi Sateigdra, it always helped me to remember that Y'shua is a complex individual. The scriptures clearly show that Yahweh is our God and Redeemer, but the redemptive vehicle, through which man was to be redeemed, had to be a man. That man was Y'shua.

To call him God is not quite correct, but wouldn't be totally wrong. As Thomas said, my Lord, recognizing the obedient Son of Man, and my God, recognizing the Fullness and Power of the One and Only God, Yahweh, dwelling within him, is very scriptural.

Unfortunately, there are those, who have made him fully God, to the exclusion of his Father, and those who make him just a man, ignoring his divine spiritual nature and the rights and privileges, that was gained, being obedient until death, by doing the will of his Father and the indwelling of the Spirit of his Father.

Sorry for the run on sentence.

Brenda said...

Yes Keith,
I was nodding my head (so to speak) to all those scriptures, and I too pray for Paul.
God bless.

Brenda said...

You are very welcome Sateigdra,

There are many things that can appear hard to understand in the scriptures, until the Holy Spirit reveals the truth of those scriptures.
Even 1 Corinthians ch. 12 vs. 27,28 seems strange,how can we be the body of Christ?

'Now you are the body of Christ, and each of you is a member of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues.…

We can only accept being part of the body of Christ on Earth when we acknowledge that God, Who is Spirit, works on earth through the fleshly body even now, as He did with Jesus (the sacrificial Lamb) Whom He made our Lord. We are all One with God in Jesus, and that is in the Spirit.
God bless you Sateigdra

Paul G said...


Brenda, as I have said, those words are not a metaphor for you and for everyone who does not know God.

Tell me, why would Yahweh exalt another name above his own name ?
What kind of a god is that who exalts a mere man and his name above his own name ?
And why would they blaspheme a mare man's name and not God's Name.
Only the carnal mind would say that God would exalt someone else Name.

Also, the Spirit of Yahweh doesn't dwell in the Lord Jesus Christ when the Scriptures clearly said that the Lord Jesus is the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17)

Paul G said...

#1. Deuteronomy 6:4, Keith, even the demons know that God is one.

Our debate is, which ONE ?
Yahweh or the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth ?
NO Keith, it can't be both.
And there is NO original Script. The Bible is the Word of God and NO other books or texts.

#2. The Messiah's Name is JESUS and NOT Y'shua.
Jesus said, “I and the Father are ONE” (John 10:30), Jesus is NOT 'ONE' with another called Father.

#3. Obviously you are ONE with your Father whatever his name is.
My Father who is in heaven is the Lord Jesus Christ and I worship Him and all who believe in Him worship Him alone (Mat. 28:9). We do NOT worship another God, any other god is the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4).

#4 + 5. Absolutely NOT ! The Lord Jesus is NOT ONE with another, He said that "he who has seen me has seen the Father".

#6. You becoming ONE with the Messiah, which ONE, you or the Messiah ? I guess it would be you :-)
Or perhaps Siamese twins ?

With Jesus and the Father it is different, it is Jesus who is God with the title Father, and for that reason they wanted to stone the Lord (John 10:33) saying, "because You, being a man make Yourself out to be God. "
Jesus did not deny that because He is the Lord God came in the flesh. And that is the reason why we worship Him (Mat. 28:9).

And do you think that you also become God (with a big 'G') ?
I think not ! That's exactly what the Mormons believe.

No Keith, Jesus doesn't have a relationship with the Father (as you have said to Sateigdra).
At the temptation (Mat. 4:11), why did the Father not turn up and help His Son ?
At the transfiguration (Mat. 17) Why did the Father not turn up ?

Well, the Father cannot turn up and never did because the Father is the Lord Jesus Christ just as the Scriptures said (Heb.7:3).

Yes Keith, I wish that you would look at the Scriptures.

Brenda said...

Paul,
once again you are questioning scripture, not me.
Jesus is the express image of God.
Hebrews ch. 1 vs. 1-3 say:-

'In many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through Whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.…'

Jesus can not sit next to Himself Paul.

God 'spoke through' and 'created through' His Son Jesus. However, Jesus will eventually be made subject to God, as stated in 1 Corinthians ch. 15 vs. 27,28:-

'For 'God has put everything under His feet.' Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.'

The time when that will come about, no one knows - not even Jesus the Son, as Jesus says in Mark ch. 13 vs. 31-33:-
'Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away. But as for that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on your guard and stay alert! For you do not know when the appointed time will come.…'

No Doubt said...

Paul. For the millionth time, Yes, the scriptures, clearly say that Y'shua and the Father are ONE. If that was the only one, then I would agree wholeheartedly with you. However, what you refuse to admit is that there are other verses that address this subject. Both Brenda and I have given them to you many times. You ignore them. They tell you that Y'shua and the Father are ONE, in the same way that we are ONE with the Messiah. The scriptures are quite clear, that we are ONE in the Spirit.

By the way, as a side note, when you begin to ridicule and insult people, during debate, it is a subconscious reveal that your mind knows you are losing the debate. The Spirit of God is trying to lead you into the truth. All you have to do is follow him.

Paul G said...

Brenda, a short interlude; I like to thank you for making your blog available for all of us to have a good debate about such important matters.
Most Churches and Christians don't dare to even look at the differences of truth verses lies and deceptions.
And I also appreciate that you have kept open this page for the continuation of those most neglected debates.
Again, many thanks Brenda :-)

OK, the Scriptures said, that God does NOT give His glory to another (Isa. 42:8 and 48:11).
And when God made ALL things ALONE (Isa. 44:24), that doesn't mean that God made the universe TROUGH someone else.
Please read the Scriptures and believe what He has said.

When God said that He makes all things alone, that's exactly what He did !
Now, ask yourself, who was that who made all things alone ?
It's not complicated Brenda, just read Isaiah 44:24, it's all there in the one verse. Later I will give you may more verses who say the same using only different words.

And of course you need to know the difference between a metaphor and reality.

Paul G said...

No Keith, the Scripture does NOT say that Y'shua and the Father are ONE.
Why can't you read the Scriptures properly ?

John 10:30, "I and the Father are ONE". That is a lot different to what you are saying.

And who is speaking, Y'shua ? Certainly NOT ! Just read it again, it says JESUS !
Y'syua is NOT once mentioned in the Bible.
And it doesn't say that Jesus is one in the Spirit with another one called Father. You are making that up.

Keith, you need to reed the Bible and NOT the Koran.

And NO, you don't agree with me or the Scriptures, you don't believe that Jesus is the Father as it says in John 10:30 and in John 14:9, you believe that another one called Yahweh is the Father.
And where is that written in the Bible ?

You are talking about a god which is unknown and you give him the name Yahweh, and then you say that the Lord Jesus Christ is a mere man who is used by this unknown god called Yahweh.

No Doubt said...

Paul, I grow very tired of you denying scripture and blaspheming God, especially when you claim to be a child of God. You keep denying that Yahweh is in the scriptures. You keep denying that Y'shua is in the scriptures. When I attempt to show you that Yahweh is the name that your bible translators removed and put in "LORD", you begin to using textbook tactics, that Satan has used through the years. My claim can be found in everyone's bible. It clearly shows this within the preface of your bible, but you refuse to even look.

With every word and tactic you use, it reveals to everyone that you are growing more and more deceptive.

This is no longer a debate. It is a farce, especially when you won't even investigate it for yourself. This must be amusing to you, trying to mislead and deceive. I don't think it's funny and I will no longer be a participant in your escapades.

Paul G said...

Keith, blaspheming which God ? Your god ?

I do NOT blaspheme my God the Lord Jesus Christ, I rather honer Him and give glory to Him and worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:24 and Phil. 3:3) just as you should also do (Mat. 28:9).

And anyone who does NOT do that transgresses the first commandment of the LORD and stands condemned.

I do not and can not investigate the option to believe in and worship a god who is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Brenda said...

Hi Paul,
that is ok, I only answer questions and discuss issues according to what the Lord gives me to say. However, at this moment in time I do not see how the discussion can go on really because you believe almost everything is a metaphor Paul, even when scripture clearly shows it is not.
I have enjoyed the discussion, as I love interacting with people, whether believers or not, and know that the Word of God can not go out and return to God void, whoever is a participator - whether discussing or just being present.
I know that God loves all and wants all to be saved, making that possible through Jesus being the sacrificial Lamb, and we must all do whatever He calls us to do.

For now I say - Dduw bendithia chi gyda phob ganddo yn Iesu.
That is 'God bless you with all He has in Jesus' in Welsh.

Paul G said...

Brenda, I do not say that everything is a metaphor, I say that when the Lord Jesus is speaking about the Father He uses metaphoric language, every time Brenda.

Now you don't need to answer that question.
How do you reconcile saying that you know that God loves all, when God clearly said that He hated Esau ? (Romans 9:13).
Obviously Esau is not included.

Paul G said...

Keith, I know that you are getting all little cranky when confronted with the truth my friend, but soon or later you have to deal with that deception. Getting cranky doesn't solve your problem, only repentance does.

You see, our debate is whether the Lord Jesus Christ alone is the Lord God the Almighty the creator of heaven and earth, or someone else whom you call God or Yahweh.
Both can't be God, because there is only ONE God. And both can't be a creator, only God is the creator.
And God did NOT created the world and the universe and everything in it TROUGH a mere man. In fact He created all things ALONE that is what the Scriptures said (Isaiah 44:24) and in a lot of other places.

I think that most Christian Churches are dead because they don't believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, they have fallen away from the Lord Jesus do other gods of their own making and worship them.

And I think that you can see that and for that reason you are getting annoyed by being confronted with the truth.

Brenda said...

Thank You Lord for these lovely Words:-

This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Saviour, Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,… 1 Timothy ch. 2 vs. 3-5

For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John ch. 3 vs. 16-17

No Doubt said...

Not cranky, Paul, rebuking the evil spirit that causes you to deceive. I have told you many times that I agape you and am committed to your salvation. Everything that I say to you is in an effort to cast out the evil spirit that's affecting your thought process.

With that said, the question remains. What does the preface of your bible say about why the translators of your bible used the capitalized "LORD"?

No Doubt said...

Brenda, Praise H'shem! Keep quoting the Scriptures of God! Amen!

Brenda said...

Paul,
regarding Esau, and many others who appear to have not had God's mercy - if you read the whole of Romans ch. 9 right through to the whole of chapter 11 it will explain much of what the carnal mind can not understand. Two standout verses are Romans ch. 11 vs. 32 and 33:-

'For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgements and how inscrutable his ways!'

God's ways of doing many things are amazing.

1 Peter ch. 3 vs. 18-20 is one of them:-
'For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.…'

Time is not restrictive to God, and there are also many spiritual messages for us in the books of the Old testament, including the meaning of the names of the characters and what they do.

By the way - I do enjoy discussion, as long as it is not insulting or argumentative :-)

Paul G said...

Well Keith, don't pretend to be 'holier than thou' my friend.
That evil spirit you are talking about knows me very well and he has nothing in me.

Tell me, which spirit is the evil one, the one who preaches the 'LORD' Jesus Christ and glorifies Him alone, or the spirit who preaches a god called Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh etc. and removes the glory from the Lord Jesus Christ and gives it to the other ?

And remember, saved are only those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and in NO OTHER !
Anyone who believes and worship a god called Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh and whoever else will perish with their god.

Therefore repentance is required; to turn away from all those gods and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you and your household will be saved.
And whoever does not believe, shall be damned.

Concerning the capitalized 'LORD', I left you the comment on my blog.

Paul G said...

Brenda, I did not expected an answer, I only have asked you, how do you reconcile your statement that 'God love ALL', to what God has said that 'He hated Esau'.
Obviously you say the opposite to what God has said.

No Doubt said...

Paul, I expected that answer. You do know the evil spirit well. It's only by the spirit of evil, that you can deny scripture. Even though you feel that I am holier than thou, I have always been concerned about your salvation. If you ever decide to honestly address scripture, you know where I am.

Paul G said...

Yes my friend, you have rightly said that I now that evil spirit well, he also knows me to. But greater is He who is in me than he who is the the world.

They also said to my LORD that He had an evil spirit, so what do you expect they would say to me ?

When I cast an evil spirit out of a man, I cast it out by the Spirit of God who is in me. Tell me, by which spirit do you cast them out ?

Brenda said...

Just to say,
I left a comment on Keith's blog this morning. I would like to share it on here as I do not think it is coincidence:-

'Keith,
as I awoke this morning something came straight into my mind. It was what I had seen when I clicked on Hiker Boy, who left a comment on your blog. If you click on it you will see the picture come up larger. It is a sign that says 'Beware of rattle snakes'. I believe it is a sign to accompany what the Holy Spirit has been emphasizing during this whole discussion - 'Beware of the serpent, the spirit that says 'Did God really say?'.
Hiker Boy was meant to come over to your blog and bring that message into the discussion.
God bless.'

No Doubt said...

My response was:

Hi Brenda, I didn't notice that. Great point! God moves in mysterious ways. Isn't it amazing how God uses the smallest of things to remind us of his presence. Most people chalk it up to coincidence, but I'm a firm believer that he always there guiding us. May God Continue To Bless You and Your Family An Keep Giving You Insights Like That!

I would like to add that God that puts friends in your life sometimes to keep an eye out for you when you get so caught up in something that you missed the "Beware of the Snake" signs, especially when there a serpent in sheeps clothing. Thank you, my friend.

Brenda said...

Hi Keith,
My friend and I have many things like this happen, signs to accompany God's Word, as I am sure you and many other brothers and sisters in the Lord do. I believe that sign, accompanying what we are discussing, is an encouragement to all of us (including Paul) not to question God's Word. If we try to change one thing we begin to change all else to fit together with that change.
I know that the Lord sent you to share the original translations as I have over the years seen English versions of the scriptures change in what appear to be small ways - yet have altered the meaning quite substantially.
I have often looked up original translations on line, well aware that the English language did not even exist until about 500 AD.

Laurie Collett said...

Dear Brenda,
May God bless you for defending His truth in love when false teachers question or deny it. Just as Jesus each time answered Satan's temptings with "It is written," you are wise to answer directly from God's Word.
Regarding the newer "versions" of God's Word, you are quite right that all English versions since the KJV have omitted or changed many verses, often denying the unique power of Christ, removing references to sin and the blood, etc. Revelation clearly warns against changing His Word in any way. Satan led Eve to sin by questioning, changing, adding to, and omitting portions of God's Word.
If the KJV and newer versions say different things, they can't all be right. Why would God allow the KJV to exist for hundreds of years before other versions if that were not the best English translation? I believe that each time God's Word is translated into a new language, the Holy Spirit inspires the translators.
May God bless you and your ministry,
Laurie

Brenda said...

Hi Laurie,
yes I do believe that the power is in the true Word of God, and that there is much deception in many translations. It is a bit like putting a few words of a foreign language in a conversation someone has with you in your native language. Because you have learned your native language over time, a few words of another language will not discount the true meaning. Your mind will hold within it the words you have learned. Our native language is now the Word of God.

I believe that just like Satan led Eve to question God's Word, he is trying to do the same with the Spiritual Eve, the Bride of Christ - the church. Thank God that the last Adam (Jesus Christ) is a life-giving Spirit.
God bless you and your ministry Laurie.

Brenda said...

I know I do not normally do this on my blog, but I have been moved emotionally by something I have just seen on a television program. If anyone reading this feels led, please pray that God will grant a healing miracle for a little baby named 'Charlie' - in Jesus name. Amen. Thank you.

S. Knowles said...

Thanks Keith and Brenda for your replies, they were very helpful. God bless and keep you both.

Brenda said...

You are very welcome Sateigdra,
and God bless and keep you my sister in the Lord.

Sandi said...

Brenda, this morning I have been listening to a song about the dry bones army in Ezekial 37. It made me think of you, though I am not sure why! Well, I just felt like sending you this. God bless you and have a great day! (I looked on your profile for an email, but did not find one. That's why I am posting this here.)

37 The hand of the Lord was on me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones. 2 He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. 3 He asked me, “Son of man, can these bones live?”

I said, “Sovereign Lord, you alone know.”

4 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to these bones and say to them, ‘Dry bones, hear the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lordsays to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

Brenda said...

Thank you Sandi,
it goes together with what the Lord has been showing me regarding His people, the church - Spiritual Israel.

I looked on your blog where it said EMAIL but a message came up saying:-
'Could not perform this operation because the default mail client is not properly installed.'

Laurie Collett said...

Hi Brenda,
I just said a prayer for baby Charlie.
Praise God that He speaks to us through His Word -- may we hide it in our hearts to not sin against Him, and may we follow it as a light to our path.
God bless you,
Laurie

Brenda said...

Thank you Laurie,
I know that the future of the little baby is in God's hands, and that no harm shall come to him. I always feel I have to pray when I am led to, and even as I am typing this and thinking about him I am getting tearful thinking about his parents and their love for their little boy.
God bless you Laurie.